Being a nice guy doesn’t really work with women some dating-experts claim. If women are asked how their ideal dating partner looks like, often they say that a man should be warm, friendly, cooperative, helpful, appreciative and so on. However it is well known that what women say they want and what women really want are often quite different. Woman want a nice guy but they need a strong, confident guy! If a strong-alpha male is nice to a woman she will very much appreciate it. If a wimp is nice towards women, it might get him lots of female ‘friends’, but his behaviour will basically be seen as an act of desperate trying - and hence he will be of no sexual interest to the women. Read a few essays below that make these points clearer.

But not only experts talk about this. Let’s see what a woman says about dating nice guys. Tanya at Sosuave.com claims that she has never chosen a man because he’s nice!

I’ve never chosen a man because he’s nice.

You Want Something That Lasts

Even though I’m a woman, I still love your articles and honestly agree with the majority of what you say. I’m a fairly attractive women (I guess) and find the typical pick-uplines and interested male behavior tiring and even pathetic. There’s nothing less attractive than a man fawning over me. I’ve heard and seen it all and crave someone different who is my EQUAL.

If I wanted a dog, I’d get a dog. Men with lives, interests, and a sense of self-worth are the only types of men who attract me because I have that too and I don’t want to be bored. Thank you for helping men see that they should see themselves as having value.

They’ll never find someone of quality if they don’t get that into their sweet little heads. Also, they’re going to get walked all over. Nobody deserves that. But we women test you guys constantly (sorry about that).
Are you strong and capable?

You’ve got to call me on my crap if you want my respect. If you don’t, I’ll like you to play with for a little while but never really want you for the long term. However, there is a subtle but important distinction I think you need to help some of these guys with.

That is, I’ve never chosen a man because he’s nice. Nice is not something that evokes attraction.
Pity sometimes, but not that "Damn, I’d like to crawl inyour lap and take off my shirt RIGHT NOW" reaction that everyone craves.

But NICE IS STILL IMPORTANT if you’re looking for something that lasts. If you’re not looking for a lasting relationship, well forget it,stop reading this now and continue with your current behavior.

But, I know most men aren’t as shallow as everyone insists they are.They, like everyone else, would like to find that special person who admires, respects and stands by them (while still being an animal in the sheets). If a man wants something lasting, nice is essential.

I’ve been with men who attract me but aren’t nice. When they change their minds and want the relationship to go to the next level I always flee. Why? Attraction is good but once a man makes any kind of indication that he wants a commitment, but offers nothing in return, then FORGET IT.

Logic surfaces and any woman with half a brain is going to recognize that it’s too late for that and a routine has already been established. To summarize (you know how us ladies like to blah, blah, blah)… Nice will not attract someone to you.

But you won’t be able to keep them if you aren’t. Well, you might if she’s a psycho with no sense of self-worth orrespect for herself. But is that what you want?

Tanya

Sosuave.com

Is this guy too nice to succeed with women?

Seductionscience.com claims that most men basically turn automatically into nice guys as soon as they meet an attractive woman!

Upon finding an attractive woman most men turn into inoffensive vanilla blah blah guys.

Most guys, when they find an attractive woman, they turn into vanilla inoffensive blah men who just hope they won’t say the wrong thing.

Guess what? THAT is exactly the wrong thing. You may think you’re being nice, but women will sniff your abnormal behavior a mile away. To them, it FEELS like a lie. It feels like you’re just interested in getting in her pants. You’ve started to chase her – so you shouldn’t be surprised when she starts to run away.

Treat her like one of the fellas, and you’ll avoid that whole creepy pick-up feel. You won’t activate her defenses, and you’ll foster comfort.

Seductionscience.com

And now check out this most interesting essay from Rod Van Mechelen. By his own confession, he is a perfect 100% nice guy. See his advice for women, who again and again fall for the bad guy.

Nice Guys (by Rod Van Mechelen. Copyright 1991, 1992, 1993)

The women’s war zone is in the work place. Its psycho-social borders are the sexual expectations honed by Mother’s Rules of doing what’s best for oneself and fending off rivals. Her rules include:
"It’s just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as with a poor man."

(Tara Roth Madden in Women Vs. Women)


Confessions of a (recovering) Gynaholic

Until women stop separating sex from intimacy, men need to provide a "tough love" solution.
Hello, my name is Rod, and I’m a gynaholic. Well, a recovering gynaholic, actually. More about that, later. But first, a few tart confessions.

For most of my life, I have craved female attention. Yes, it’s true. A real addict, I would do just about anything to feed my habit. Grovel and beg. Whine and howl, if I thought it would help. I was truly pathetic.
The hoops I jumped through. Listened for hours to women whine about the jerks they were sleeping with. What a nice guy I was. A typical gynaholic.

Then one day a female friend told me that the so-called "nice guys" who complain because they can’t "get laid," need to stop blaming women for their own inadequacies. "Just go out and get some," she said, euphemistically, "that’s what they need to do."

Ironic, isn’t it, how when men who truly desire a committed relationship complain because so many women would rather sleep with domineering jerks, it sounds like it’s just about sex?
There’s a simple reason for that: the thing that happens in a committed relationship that doesn’t happen in a friendship, is sex. Sex is the essential difference between the kinds of relationships women say they want, and their relationships with "just friend" nice guys. That’s why, when men complain about not being able to get a committed relationship, it comes out as, "I can’t get laid."

That’s also why we get so obsessive about it. Why so many of us turn into quivering gynaholics. But is it really all our fault? Aren’t women at least partly to blame.

Yes, they are. In countless surveys, women say they want committed relationships with "nice guys." Yet, when Friday night rolls around, many of those same women party with the bad boys. Tormenting us like this feeds our addiction. It’s a power-thing. They get off on it.

I’ve commented on this many times when discussing men’s issues, and the common response from women is, "Well, why would you want to have sex with women like that, anyway? Why don’t you hang out with a better crowd?" I’m never sure how to answer this, because the women who say this are usually the same women who do this!

It’s not like my buddies and I hang out at bars chasing after "easy" women. We don’t go around hitting on floozies. Personally, in fact, most of the women I have known were fellow students, or co-workers. And where ever I’ve gone - from Princeton to the University of Washington to the high-tech Software campuses in Redmond, Washington - the vast majority of women, in my experience, all behave the same in this respect: They reserve the nice guys for just friends, sleep with the "bad boys," then expect us gynaholics to listen sympathetically when they need someone to cry to about this month’s jerk-who-just-dumped-me.
It’s not the rejection we mind so much, but the hypocrisy.

Does this mean women should just admit they really aren’t interested in sex with nice guys?
Sure, if they really mean it and are willing to live with the consequences: Millions of men throwing away their copies of The Sensitive Male and memorizing Dr. Jama Clark’s What the Hell do Women REALLY Want?.

So, ladies, it’s time to belly up to the bar and place your order. Do you want men who will be both your friend and your lover? Or do you want a stud who treats you like dirt?

State your preference, but just remember two things. First, none of this "woman’s prerogative" crap. Adults aren’t wishy washy, and "it’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind" is nothing but an excuse to be wishy washy. Second, actions speak louder than words. And so far, what we’ve been hearing most women say is, "bad boys make me feel so good."

As for my fellow gynaholics (you know who you are), it’s time for us to take responsibility for the part we play in this. We may be able to hold women responsible for their foibles, but that doesn’t let us off the hook. We get some of the blame, too.

Nice guys who let "just friends" use them for emotional support without getting an intimate relationship in return are enabling women to remain addicted to sex with jerks.

At an early age, many women become physically addicted to sex with "bad boys."
The thrill of copulation with dangerous men is like the adrenaline rush associated with sky diving or bungee jumping. But relationships with "bad boys" tend to be one-dimensional, leaving unfulfilled their need for real sharing, caring communication, and emotional intimacy.

That’s why they seek out your company. To compensate.

The problem is, you’re not doing these women any favors. By listening and providing encouragement, you only enable them to separate sex from intimacy and remain caught in the spell of their sexual addiction.

This means that if you really care, you need to get tough. If you really want to do them a favor, you need to provide a tough love solution.

The next time one of your female friends wants to cry on your shoulder, tell you all about how she’s being victimized by her current cowboy, get tough. Tell her that her problem is, she has separated sex from intimacy, and that until she learns to connect the two, there’s nothing you can do.

The only problem with this is that, in the current anti-male climate, this is likely to be mistaken as a sexual come-on, which will make you vulnerable to charges of sexual harassment. To protect yourself, tell her that while you really care for her as a friend, you cannot associate with her until she overcomes her harmful addiction. Then ask her to leave you alone.

This may seem harsh, but sometimes a tough love solution is the only way you can really help. If you care for her, it may be the best thing you can do. And it will be good for you, too.

As a (recovering) gynaholic, I have done this, and it’s liberating. No, I’m not getting laid. On the other hand, it has freed me from the anxiety that comes from watching Star Trek alone. And that’s saying something.

Where have all the nice guys gone?

A common lament among women is that, "All the good men are either married or gay." But that depends on how you define a "good man."

If success, virility or excitement are the primary characteristics of a "good" man, then they’re right.
Since the average guy makes the average amount of money and sports the average amount of muscle, and since excitement is, by definition, abnormal, then there are probably very few "good" men at all.

But if we go by Dr. Judy Kuriansky’s  definition, ("Nice Guy Defined - How To Love A Nice Guy") then women are wading through a stream of diamonds in search of gold.
A nice guy…:

• Treats a woman well.
• Makes her feel good about myself.
• Cares about her happiness and well-being.
• Is thoughtful and generous.
• Is willing to commit to the right relationship.
• Is honest and trustworthy.
• Is willing to cooperate, compromise and communicate.
• Is able to express and receive affection.
• Respects her independence — and her vulnerability.
• Supports rather than competes.

Men personifying the above characteristics exist, and in significant numbers. But they may be too responsible to be any fun, and as we all know, "Girls just want to have fun, oh girls just want to have fun." Thus, in the real world, the world untouched and forever untouchable by something so ephemeral as a wish, nice men exist. But most women live in a different reality, and in that reality such men do not exist.  So, nice guys are forever condemned to an evanescent existence, passing through the lives of women like whispers in the night.

In this harsh duplicity, most men have two choices: to violate their integrity, warp their souls and become spendthrift beer-swilling shallow creatures with an all consuming passion for sex, money, belching and Monday Night Football, and thereby become real to most women, or remain invisible and cling tightly to their invisible integrity with what acts of invisible courage few women will ever know.

Many men - perhaps most - choose compromise over despair, and assume behaviors that will get them noticed, behaviors that bind them to the very same women who say they long for the company of "nice men." Many men regret this, but not too much - better to live a lie with a "bitch" than subsist alone on the cold pinnacle of unrewarded integrity. Is it any wonder so many men are bitter because "nice guys finish last"?

Most women assure nurturing men finish last. They snub them, and do it so casually and with such arrogance, as if they were God’s gift to men and we should be grateful for being allowed to breathe the same air. This is the epitome of female hypocrisy, and they’re no different from the "stud" who sleeps with dozens of women, then requires the woman he marries to be a virgin.

They put on pedestals the idea of men who are expressive and caring, and there glorify such men in self-help books and the occasional Alan Alda movie. But when they close the books and the movies end, they put the nice guys back up on pedestals to gather dust until the next time they need an icon of the unobtainable to look upon and ask, "Why aren’t there any men left like him?"

Nice Guys (by Rod Van Mechelen)

Ultrafeel’s tip for men:
If you want to be successful with dating woman try to become a real gentlemen with class, passion and lot’s of confidence - but avoid being the poor nice guy at all costs!

Ultrafeel’s tip for woman:
If you want to dive into the adventure of going out with a nice guy, try Dr. Judy Kuriansky’s book:
"Nice Guy Defined - How To Love A Nice Guy"

And if you still face problems with the opposite gender: Surf ultrafeel.tv to find out that what we really are is neither male nor female…

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